00:00.40 James Welcome back everyone to Merge Conflict, your weekly developer podcast about all things in the world of software development, AI, and so much more. I am one. of your co-hosts because we have Two co-hosts. Me, James Montemagno, and with me... The man on the island, Mr. Frank Greger. How's it going, buddy? 00:15.84 Frank Oh, it's going wonderful. I was, like I misheard you at first. I thought we had two other people joining us. So the two hosts and then two more co-hosts would be kind of fun, but we're not there yet. It's just the two of us forever. 00:27.49 James Cheers. 00:27.51 Frank for forevermore. 00:28.49 James Two of us. I one time. 00:30.49 Frank It's a windy day here, buddy. It's it's crazy. i hope I hope the star magic link works this whole time. 00:37.81 James Oh, it's looking, looking absolutely beautiful. One time, I'm pretty sure I always say like, I'm one of your co-hosts. And then you sometimes chime in. You're like, oh, I'm just, I'm just one of your guests, James. I'm like, no, you're my co-host, Frank. 00:49.31 James You have been for how many ever episodes? 00:51.02 Frank First time caller. Really excited to be here, James, on your show. um I don't know. or Is there a giveaway this week? What else is different? 01:00.40 Frank Yeah. 01:00.66 James for exclusive episode 540? Well, there is. A giveaway of lightning topics, Frank Krueger. Yes. 01:09.06 Frank I love lightning topics. This is when we try to do six topics, five minutes each. um We used to be good at that. Now we're terrible at it. I think we're going to try it again this time. We might. 01:19.32 Frank Remember when we did a timer and we actually paid attention to the time? Maybe we can do it. Who knows? I believe in us. 01:24.74 James We'll see. Well, you got to get to the airport. So that means we actually do need to stop. 01:29.37 Frank ah 01:29.76 James the podcast at certain times. But if you're brand new, to episode 540 for the very first time every 10 episodes. Or so, just about. 100 % accuracy. 01:39.50 Frank nothing 01:39.56 James We do. five or six or seven topics. We try to spend about. five minutes each on them. There's sometimes things that have just been top of mind, but not. Don't quite make a fool. episode worth of content. 01:52.20 James And sometimes there's been stuff in the back pocket that we've been having to think about for a while or they're brand new things as well or things in our life. So we open up a Apple note and then we. get go to town and, um, 02:03.77 James We just do it. So Frank, I guess. 02:05.35 Frank Yeah. 02:06.24 James Kick us off. 02:06.78 Frank oh i get topic number one james have you heard of this thing called siri 02:12.38 James Ah. Um... Hmm. 02:14.16 Frank Maybe. 02:14.20 James I think that's a button that I never press on my actually, actually randomly this morning I was on my Mac. 02:17.31 Frank Yeah, no. 02:21.01 James MacBook Air. And. i was I was implementing a new feature. in Tiny Clips for captioning. 02:28.62 Frank Uh huh. 02:28.49 James for clip for taking a video and then doing the getting the srt from it And. Usually like whisper, you can just like get the whisper SDK, download them. I'll do a thing, but actually inside of. 02:40.08 James like all apple machines with I think M1s and macOS. 02:42.67 Frank Mm hmm. 02:44.28 James 26 and above, just have it built in, just built in. 02:47.12 Frank Sure. Sure. 02:47.88 James um It's in there. 02:49.20 Frank Yeah. 02:49.31 James Um, So. I was like. It wouldn't work, it wouldn't work, and I couldn't figure it out. I mean, I did figure it out because like the clip I was testing had no audio, so that was the problem. But um and the the I was like, maybe I need to turn on Apple Intelligence. 03:01.83 James So then I clicked on the Siri button. 03:02.55 Frank Oh yeah. 03:03.74 James And you don't, by the way. You don't have to. But, um... 03:06.51 Frank Yeah. 03:06.84 James But that that was me this morning accidentally clicking Siri to... Two. Be like, oh, sorry, I'm going to turn you back off now. 03:14.63 Frank I think that's how most people interact with Siri is accidentally. At least that's me because Siri up to now. 03:17.70 James Oops. 03:20.89 Frank And maybe a little bit at all. It was really dumb. But now we have a thing called Siri AI. And I was making fun, I have been making fun, I continuously make fun of... 03:31.45 Frank um the fact that we haven't been able to do good app integration with Siri AI. So we've had local models on the phones for a long time. iPhones have had neural engine for a long time, but I was complaining that they haven't given us a good way to interact with Siri. And especially in the more standard ways that we've all adopted in the agentic world, meaning basically... Um, skills. 03:53.51 Frank And. ncp servers tools tools. MCP servers are just ways to inject tools into an agent. Well, all that's changing. Finally, hashtag finally, Apple is releasing the um Siri AI SDK. 04:11.55 Frank And I have to apologize to everyone because I don't remember exactly which version of Xcode you need for this, but I believe it's Xcode 27. three i believe but it might be in one of the earlier ones apple has like 04:20.72 James yes 04:24.25 Frank 10 different betas out right now it's all very confusing at the moment but just just shop around and you will discover this thing called the siri ai sdk and in it we can finally do proper app integrations. 04:37.08 James Mmm. 04:37.76 Frank So that's where... um You can declare tools. that your apps provide to Siri. So this is like the Siri through the Siri app or someone just using Siri. 04:49.88 Frank So there's kind of funny different modes if your app is in the foreground. and you invoke Siri, it knows your app is in the foreground. And we'll pick up like skills and tools. Or if you're just chatting with Siri, you can tell it, hey, use the iCircuit app and make me a circuit that does blah, blah, blah. and it can like invoke tools. 05:09.20 Frank ah And there's also, if you have a live activity, your app gets a little bit of preference too. But you can always, from Siri, whatever, say, do this thing in this app. And you can it's also a nice way to like share data through apps because you could say, like get this data from tiny clips and move it on over to... 05:28.79 Frank I circuit. I don't know why. Don't do that. That'd be weird. But you could. 05:32.50 James You could say you could say take a video with tiny clips. Um, in of iCircuit and then take that image and then upload it and send an email to James about how cool this was. 05:40.29 Frank Sure. 05:43.73 Frank Yeah. There we go. worse It's better than ordering a pizza like all the AI demos do. But it's super cool. um We've been able to do app intents for a while. And that was the old way to integrate with Siri. And basically, Apple just extended it. So there's a new app intent called... 06:00.63 Frank a tool and so basically you can just declare a bunch of tools that you're app can execute. 06:07.88 James Hmm. 06:08.12 Frank And that's honestly... Pretty much all you need to do, I need to figure out the .NET side of this to make it all work, but on the Swift side it's pretty easy. We'll figure something out in .NET to make all this work because I want it. um And then if the tools are good enough, you can have skills, which are your standard agentic skills that we've all gotten used to. Just a bunch of markdown, basically telling it how to use the tools correctly or adding other little like skills. 06:34.77 Frank ah to um the thing. But it's pretty cool. You create um a skills bundle. which is just a bunch of Markdown files. So I don't think we have support for that in .NET right now, but that one's pretty easy to add. We just, because it's... Just a directory full of Markdown files. And then... um The app intents, we'll have to figure that out, the right way to do that in .NET. But I'm excited for this because, um well... 07:00.11 Frank i've I've just been complaining on the Mac side. that our our apps should be MCP servers. So finally, our apps can be MCP servers. 07:11.14 James That's interesting. Um, I mean, one, this is really cool. and I have a lot of ideas. For things such as... um you know my cadence for example this is great because i could say hey go start a new ride stop a ride could because it can run the background it has live activities it can do all this stuff i could say hey can you go take all my you know rides from this month 07:26.02 Frank Mm hmm. 07:32.13 James And then go create, you know, extrapolate that data and then send me an email report or whatever. Right. And it has that data. It could go give us, I could easily expose all that data. right from my cadence which is great same thing with my stream timer like start a timer, add a minute to add a minute, stop a minute, do a thing right from do this thing, to whatever it is, right? That would be really cool. 07:51.92 James The fascinating part for Tiny Clips that I want to get your opinion on here. Hmm. is Like. I recently, I have it in beta right now, aka if you pull from main, so alpha. 08:05.35 James is i I created my own. mcp server that you like run locally that you connect to it 08:10.69 Frank Oh, right. Sure. 08:11.53 James Yeah. So I have a tiny clips agent that you run. 08:12.19 Frank Yeah. 08:15.07 James And it's a pairing agent for all intents and purposes. It allows you to be like, hey. I'm like the but it It allows it to like sit on your machine and run the DNX commands. 08:24.70 James like It is the MCP server that talks to the Tiny Clips app, right? 08:25.47 Frank Yeah. 08:28.89 James Um, I guess I could have like embedded it directly into the tiny clips app, but this allows it to like sit in the background without doing anything. I don't know. Copilot recommended I do. 08:38.50 Frank Oh, geez, yeah. 08:39.15 James But anyways, this allowed it to be cross platform. So you run like a one DNX command. on mac or windows you and and then boom it like communicates and it pairs up 08:47.54 Frank Right. 08:48.90 James So I have this. And then what's cool is I created a plugin. And the plugin has the MCP server and it also has a bunch of skills. and so it has a bunch of tools and has a bunch of skills and um knows how to talk to it 08:56.70 Frank Mm hmm. Yeah. Perfect. 08:59.83 James So Tiny Clips now, I can now go to any AI agent. And so I can go to my clods, I can go to my copilots, I can go to my codexes, I can go to whatever that can speak to it. My VS codes. 09:10.68 James And I can say, hey. I want you to take a screenshot of iCircuit and i want you to annotate on xyz add a i emoji add a things and it'll just go do it 09:15.59 Frank Mm hmm. 09:21.70 Frank Yeah, cool. 09:21.72 James Right. Which is so cool. So the question is, Like, is that the right route? Or I'm assuming with the Siri AI kit. You basically, if I wanted to have this app, which is kind of a niche case, right? 09:31.67 James This is your Figma. This is your stuff that already has MCP servers that are talking to the apps. 09:33.74 Frank Mm hmm. 09:36.09 James You'll still need those because. your codexes and your vs codes can't talk to the siri ai right so this is just so i'm gonna have two of them basically inside the app, right? 09:40.06 Frank Yeah. 09:46.64 James Yeah, that sucks. 09:47.16 Frank Yeah. Well, it it sucks and it doesn't. I mean, it sucks that Apple didn't just adopt MCP. because obviously they know how to Xcode literally has an MCP server built in. 09:55.85 James It does it. Yeah. 09:57.23 Frank So you kind of wish they'd gone that route. But you also see... Siri has done app intents for a long time and app intents have been the way for apps to communicate with each other. 10:03.85 James Yeah. 10:07.61 Frank I'm sure they have a lot of sandboxing and hashtag security around all that. junk. um But yeah, from the developer point of view, it would have been nice if they just exposed it all as an MCP server for real, c like using the real protocol. 10:20.99 Frank But the good news is it's just a very software interface thing, right? 10:20.66 James Yeah. 10:24.50 Frank You can have both your MCP server and the app intents calling into the same. effective tool. 10:30.96 James yeah 10:31.08 Frank And I think if we come up with a .NET solution, we should do exactly that. Like it should be. both it should have the mcp server and fulfill the Apple series side for all that. 10:36.23 James Same code. 10:40.30 James Yeah. What? 10:41.42 Frank it's It's Apple being Apple. Of course, they did it their own way. 10:44.40 James Yeah. I mean, I like it. I mean, obviously tiny clips is pretty complex. um I have like all sorts of tools and specific things that you'd want to do, but a good example would be. Like I can, if I implement this in tiny clips, I can say, Hey. see Peace. 10:57.15 Frank Yeah, sorry everyone. 10:57.45 James Dingus. 10:58.38 Frank Yeah. 10:58.32 James hey dingus and mine's off hey dingus like Can you go do this thing? And then. open local morph and then convert that into a 1080p 720p and 480p and then can you go like dump it in this folder and then oh actually i have the youtube mcps can you go also open the YouTube app and then upload the creator portal. 11:15.24 Frank Mm hmm. 11:15.74 James or like That'd be really new neat workflow, right? 11:17.94 Frank Yeah. 11:18.12 James And then boom. 11:18.66 Frank and And that should work. You just have to click um um the permission dialog 5 ,000 times and restart the app twice because of the broken macOS security model. 11:23.86 James and 11:27.33 James ah God. I love it. 11:31.16 Frank But yeah, I Overall, nitpicks aside, like this is what we all want. We we want agentic integrations. Yes, it would have been nice if they did an MCP server. But yeah, this is finally going to join it all together. 11:42.93 Frank And that's what's important. 11:43.31 James I mean... It... It's harder with like, it's, you know, makes more sense on the desktop where I'm like, I'm connecting MCP servers on my desktop on the phone. a little bit trickier. 11:51.66 Frank yeah 11:51.95 James They could can they could they could merge it together. like a connector. 11:56.58 Frank But I'm pumped. 11:57.20 James Just saying. Ba-da-bam. Well, that was kind of two in one, which is good. So that at least like covered one of mine, not one of mine fully, but kind of, but we'll come back to tiny clips. 12:06.36 Frank Okay. 12:07.43 James But I at least wanted to talk about some of this agent mode stuff that I was doing, which I thought was really fascinating, like turning your app into. 12:08.08 Frank hu 12:13.100 James making it agent aware. So a good example you just had, which I'm kind of interested in. is God, this is just a whole freaking podcast now. 12:21.78 Frank Yeah. 12:22.10 James What? Like imagine I circuit to your scenario. So you have I circuit. Wouldn't someone also want to just open? Codex, Claude, Copilot, and also just say, hey, go draw this thing in iCirc and it would just do it. 12:36.22 James So I'm just saying. 12:36.57 Frank Yes. Yeah. 12:37.96 James Wouldn't. Did Is it too late almost? is So, I mean... I think the win here. Here's the win for them. I think. We stated it earlier. The win is. 12:50.21 James connecting apps together. 12:52.22 Frank Yeah. 12:52.85 James Because people just install the apps and it just works compared to, I got to configure this MCP stuff and do a plugin and do a thing. 12:59.14 Frank Mhm. 12:59.05 James So I think. It makes sense in that regard. So I'll give it a I'll give it a I'll give it a pass for now. Because I do think that the ease of use for people that are just like, I install apps and then it just does stuff, then that's pretty cool. 13:12.39 James Yeah. 13:12.72 Frank Yeah. 13:12.87 James Okay. 13:13.02 Frank And if you think the current state we're in right now, let's say I'm a ChatGPT user and i'm ah I'm a normal person, not a developer. So I'm just using the free account of ChatGPT. That has a limited number of OpenAI approved integrations or connectors or whatever. 13:27.43 James ah Yeah. 13:29.60 Frank But I go and buy a new iPhone. And it has Siri AI on it. I download an app. Siri AI is effectively free. I mean you're not going to hit its limits. 13:39.47 James yeah 13:39.84 Frank It'll run locally if it needs to. and it'll use whatever credits you have. It's just a nice... I think we in the developer world spending $200 a month on silliness are not representative of the real world. In the real world, people are not spending $200 a month on agents. 13:56.56 James Yeah. 13:56.66 Frank they're buying a phone and this is going to serve them beautifully because they can start getting agentic features. that we developers have been taking. but abusing for the last year. 14:07.83 James no That makes sense. complete sense. So. Yeah. I agree. I agree. um All right. We'll talk about something else that people are buying. 14:18.75 James iPhone duos. if I think they bought them for about a day or two. 14:22.10 Frank Oh, I think they're pretty sold out. No, I think they're doing well. I mean, aside from Foldgate and all that, you know there's a few defects out there. 14:25.51 James Hmm? 14:30.16 Frank But um my my app is still in review, but I finally added iPhone Duo support and it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought. 14:36.04 James oh 14:39.06 Frank um things mostly worked i just wanted this is my just a little bit of venting and kind of relieved that it wasn't actually so bad. The simulator works pretty well. um There are so many permutations of screens you have to go through though. Open. partially open. 14:56.07 Frank ah Closed. um 14:58.82 Frank and then landscape and portrait for all of those. And guess what? The number of items you can fit on the toolbar is different for every single one of those permutations. And um Apple is very clear in all their docs. You shouldn't be measuring the screen. You should be using the trait collection to decide but like what elements are available. But the trait collection is not. granular enough and so as an app developer i've just had to test it left and right and so they added a few nice things like the toolbars you can give priorities too different. items on the toolbar. But then the annoying thing is if you have items grouped on the toolbar, then it takes the highest priority item in the. 15:42.93 Frank Group. So you can't like have some low priority items and high priority items in the group. The group either shows or it doesn't show. 15:50.23 James m 15:50.43 Frank And Apple like prioritizes their stupid Wi-Fi indicator instead of like your toolbar item. So i found I found a few of the sizes really annoying to deal with, especially the closed landscape. You get like... 16:04.75 Frank three or four toolbar items. And if you're grouping things to make it look nice, you get even fewer because they have to add stupid amounts of padding and margin to everything. So i I want to say it's both been excellent because it was a pretty good development experience. That simulator has been working great and everything, but it's also been frustrating because you really have to take, you you can't exactly follow their docs. because... 16:30.31 Frank Their docs assume you have. the world's dumbest, simplest app in the whole world with no interesting features. um you really have to test every scenario i find the size classes aren't perfect But the biggest one is, boy, I didn't realize how many of my apps. 16:45.29 Frank still rely on app delegates, main screens, and UI windows. And the big one for me has been switching everything over to scene delegates. And I should say it's been pretty seamless. It's been pretty easy doing that. 16:59.71 Frank But. I forgot how many apps I have and how many don't do that. 17:02.36 James yeah 17:03.01 Frank And so it's just been a lot of work on my side. Not the hardest work, but... quite a bit of work. And it's funny, it's a hard crash if you don't do that conversion. 17:13.38 Frank If you compile with the 27 SDK and you try to run one of these apps with an app delegate. Uh-uh. Apple's having none of that. And that applies for Mac Catalyst too. 17:23.37 James oh yeah That was where I. 17:24.24 Frank Yeah. 17:25.05 James I told you. i had I had switched to... Um, building. and compiling for mac os 27 and that was the very first thing i didn't test or whatever i had i had some some app that just for some reason hadn't added the i think it's because i was using i think in the new templates for .net maui it has all the uic and stuff but i had used one that didn't or whatever it's a very easy fix if you like your app's not that complex obviously you just add it in there but 17:46.14 Frank Right. 17:51.29 Frank Mhm. 17:51.13 James I was like, oh. yep rejected back thanks cool bye yeah i think that was local morph maybe or one of the other ones that got rejected well that's really fascinating did you use any i've i noticed about the week that things came out i saw on twitter that there was just like tons of people coming out with like custom plugins and skills and 18:08.48 Frank Right. 18:09.11 James you know whole like you know just use this kit and it'll do every permutation all the things just like tell your agent Tell your agent to do this thing. and like follow these guidelines? Did you use any of that stuff? Or would you artisanally craft these? 18:22.00 James form factors. 18:23.51 Frank um I didn't use rando off the internet skills. I did not do that. But what I did do is Xcode has skills built in and they have an easy command you can run to export all the skills to text files. um And those included a lot of migration information for SDK 27. So I exported all the skills from. 18:48.63 Frank Xcode then went through the painful thing of figuring out where every stupid agent wants their skills inserted because I normally have like my own centralized location for skills and everything's configured to use that but these were 18:54.80 James yeah 19:00.45 Frank temporary skills that I didn't always want to be in there. It was like, Oh, where where do I put like these temporary skills? 19:05.26 James Yeah. 19:05.94 Frank You know, I'm trying to figure that nonsense out. 19:06.49 James Yeah. 19:08.44 Frank So I did use skills, but I just used Apple's built in ones, mostly just because I trusted them. 19:14.13 James Okay. 19:16.33 Frank And I read through them real quick. And they they weren't very demanding, honestly, like they weren't like special tool use or anything like that. And I didn't change them at all for .NET. So I was doing everything on the .NET side. 19:27.41 James Hmm. 19:27.61 Frank And the agents are smart enough. They're like, oh, yeah, these are skills written for Swift. But like it it knows the translation layer from .NET to. 19:33.67 James It knows. 19:35.89 Frank whatever, you know, so it was fine. It did a surprisingly good job. I was very clear. like I worked on my prompt a few times. like I want a minimal. change do not move code unless you absolutely have to move code like we can over time refine the setup But. 19:53.85 Frank because i've been writing apps since like iOS 2. The app delegate. static methods in the app delegate, that's my dumping ground. for where I put all my global functions, any code that needed to share some code, they just call app delegate dot. 20:02.25 James hi 20:09.69 Frank And I'm like, don't move that code. Just. 20:12.31 James Yeah. 20:12.55 Frank Leave it there. Leave it. Leave it. Don't touch it. Don't touch it. It's fine. It's fine. So I just put a lot of, like, qualifiers. Like, I want you to upgrade the app. Yes. but only move the things that absolutely need to be moved. 20:24.35 Frank And then testing was actually pretty easy. The hardest one I found was iCircuit has external monitor support. and that's a whole different like scene mechanism and Apple honestly just doesn't document it. very well like it's kind of one of those features they've kind of abandoned to be honest mostly uh 20:44.58 Frank Which is a little frustrating because all the docs are basically written in for iOS 3. And so none of those docs have been translated over. So a little finicky, things like that. So I did the gross thing of... 20:56.93 Frank I just disabled the feature for now because I looked at my logs and I think one person in the last three years used that feature. 20:59.52 James oh 21:04.59 James Yeah there you go, that's a good idea. 21:05.32 Frank So I'm like, I hate being that person that like, I'll wait for the bug report. But for that case, I'm going to wait for the bug report. 21:11.23 James Yeah. 21:11.62 Frank And I can add it back. But I just wanted to get Duo support out because the phones are out there. And you you made a joke, but I think they're they're vaguely popular. I think the price is keeping people away. 21:21.28 James Yeah. 21:23.56 Frank but they're popular for the people who can afford them. 21:25.84 James they're They're popular enough if you can find one. Yeah, I should actually. Holiday. hack I should. pre-holiday hack thanksgiving hack i don't know i should definitely 21:32.24 Frank instance instance Yeah. 21:34.12 James get to work on this, that is for sure, at least on my at least on my cadence, which is my... number one app. So I should probably do it and that won't be pretty. 21:41.22 Frank Mm hmm. 21:43.74 James That would be pretty straight. because that one is just a Swift app. 21:45.41 Frank Yeah. 21:47.06 James So it should be pretty straightforward. So. 21:49.15 Frank And if you only have... four toolbar items or four tabs like your app's going to convert just fine. 21:53.61 James Yeah. No, that... 21:56.29 Frank like just Just do it it. 21:57.24 James That's all. 21:57.74 Frank It'll be fine. 21:58.03 James Yeah. 21:58.60 Frank yeah it's 21:58.87 James That's all I have. Yeah. 22:00.25 Frank Complex UIs are harder, but obviously. 22:01.85 James Well. the The one cool thing, if I really wanted to do it, there's this. um feature that I stole from Scott because he built a website and then I just put his website. natively into my app, but it's called like kind of landscape. 22:13.92 James it's like a It's kind of like, ah what did I call it? ah it's Let me open my app and let me see what I called it. 22:18.57 Frank ha 22:19.20 James I don't know. I vibed i vibed it really quick and to impress him. It's called Scenic, so Scenic Rides. So basically there's like all these YouTube videos of like scenic rides that are just bike riding, right? 22:29.53 James So you click on one, so you connect to your sensor, you click on a video and it'll play it. 22:29.57 Frank Cool. 22:34.23 James And I had to. There's only so much room to play a video and also... 22:37.26 Frank Yeah. 22:38.27 James you know, do stuff. So it was a little bit tricky, especially because like embedded embedded videos for YouTube are really, you know, finicky. 22:39.67 Frank Yeah. 22:44.82 James So. This would be neat because ideally I have a lot more screen real estate that I could play around with. 22:49.77 Frank Yeah. 22:50.41 James on it i could have a video playing on one side and then another you know the the numbers and stuff on the other side or 22:54.10 Frank Yeah. 22:56.39 James Just. 22:56.54 Frank It's a tricky size, to be honest, because when it's fully open, it's not even as big as an iPad mini, I don't believe. Like, it's a weird, you got to make some weird UI decisions. 23:08.28 Frank Like, I realized most of my modal model dialogues that pop up full screen, even the sheets, they just didn't look right. they didn't behave well. So I actually switched a lot of code over to popovers. 23:17.59 James Yeah. 23:21.02 Frank And popovers are not like an... 23:21.01 James Ooh, nice. 23:24.08 Frank iPhone OS thing. They're more of an iPad OS thing. So I i added... a tiny bit of tricky code where under certain some certain certain circumstances, I will do popovers just because on an opened duo. 23:39.84 Frank They just look better. They act better, the app. 23:41.14 James Yeah. 23:42.12 Frank is more rational. so It's tricky because... um Sometimes you want iPhone-y stuff and sometimes you want iPad-y stuff. So it's a real blended device I found. And I'd find... i Making that decision, what should be a sheet? What should be a form sheet? What should be a popover? 24:01.18 Frank That was kind of the harder choices. to make with it and then detecting that scenario correctly. But the good news is it made me audit all that kind of code because I realized I had a few funny little bugs where even on iPad OS going from like full screen to a narrow window. 24:10.96 James Yeah. 24:17.46 Frank i I was actually not. being very graceful about a few little transitions so it made me clean up that code a little bit so it's a little bit of a good audit of your own UI. 24:24.56 James Nice. 24:27.65 James Yeah. 24:27.81 Frank to make it work. 24:28.97 James I like that Good, good, good I think that's another thing, too, because especially if your apps have grown over time or they've grown over time with your agents, they're not necessarily always following those bre practice best practices. 24:30.94 Frank Mm hmm. 24:38.87 James This will force it into it. 24:40.73 Frank Yeah. 24:40.92 James Um, Well, I wanted to call a little quick one. here. Back from last week's episode on the Universe Recap. um I've spent... So I've spent a few, there's a few things. Yeah. big change that I've had in the last. uh man month or two. So I jump around all of our tools. so Right now, I have sessions going in the CLI. 25:01.58 James I have VS Code open. 25:02.46 Frank Heh heh. 25:02.60 James I have Visual Studio open. I have the web open. I was on a walk today. I was kicking off a session from my phone. like I got down to my computer, opened it up in VS Code from there. um I'm all you know in the app all the time. It just depends on the day of what I'm looking for and how of what projects I'm using. 25:18.93 James And I've been spending quite a lot of time in the agent's window. which um has a lot of similarities to the Copilot app, obviously for multi-session, multi-space, but with all your VS Code stuff. 25:29.12 James and what i really like about it is like all my themes obviously pick up and run there but also extensions and all this stuff all pop up and I have canvas support. So they filled in a lot of these gaps of the cool new stuff, all the, the, the shiny bits that are there. 25:39.17 Frank Cool. 25:41.12 James So and it's really nice. I'm on windows. So it's really fast. And I really like that, um, a lot. But the thing that I've been doing. um is that they've obviously added tons of features in the last week with all this cloud sync stuff, which has been a real game changer for me. 25:54.87 James But the thing that has really changed in all these services that I work is. Copilot. fusion now i know i did an entire podcast on hydrofusion We did want an auto. 26:01.20 Frank ah 26:04.61 James I talked to Julia at Universe and she had a whole session on Copilot Fusion. I think you can watch it on the site. But. Co-pilot So... 26:14.79 James There's three modes. Standard, which is auto, high, and max. So think of like I just want to do something standard like quick to the point. It's gonna pick a small you know, model. It might pick a soul model. It might pick a Luna model. It might pick an MAI model. It just really depends. 26:30.27 James But then if you want more of this orchestration. right like i have a chunk of work to do right this is going to be a longer thing like right now i'm implementing Annotation overlays for videos that have to be like rendered out on tiny clips. 26:35.33 Frank Yeah. 26:42.84 James That's a pretty long running thing for it to like implement all these things across Mac and windows needs to think and needs to delegate and needs to review his plan. 26:45.44 Frank Hmm. 26:50.13 James just high. I haven't really done max too much because max just just big, huge models. 26:51.74 Frank Mm hmm. 26:55.27 James And I'm trying to just use how she said high is like the go to I've been using a high. 26:58.97 Frank okay 27:00.59 James Non-stop. Just... especially for long running sessions where I just don't even care. and just let it go and it is Scarily. impressive and scarily like really affordable. 27:11.61 James And I know there's a 30 % off deal going on right now, but. 27:11.67 Frank nice 27:14.44 James Even regardless, I'm like. it's crushing some stuff man it's like destroying. Code. 27:21.52 Frank Yeah. I... and And. And. Do you know what kind of modes it's in? Because I keep thinking about like the critique versus the orchestration. like I think we've both been big fans of the critique. 27:32.04 Frank style or the rubber duck, whatever you want to call it, when a model is comparing against another model. 27:36.90 James Mm hmm. 27:37.00 Frank And that's still a part where I don't do that enough. myself. I still do kind of hand code reviews. 27:44.18 James Yeah. 27:44.18 Frank So that's the part I'm actually most excited about with Fusion. I know like... The money, obviously, is a big part of it. But for me, it's like i don't I haven't been taking enough advantage of critiquing and auto-reviewing and stuff like that. 27:56.80 James Yeah. 27:57.97 Frank Have you noticed it doing much of that or is that kind of hidden away from you? 28:01.88 James I would say I often go into plan mode, even with high where it's like planning and critiquing its own plan and like. 28:07.50 Frank Mm-hmm 28:07.40 James the plant is like really good it's like it's like way better the questions that ask are really involved like i feel like the quality of responses I'm getting. 28:09.44 Frank Cool. 28:15.05 James I would say if I'm just sending a prompt off. and doing the thing. it could just pick out whatever it wants it doesn't really matter it just does the thing 28:21.92 Frank Mm hmm. 28:22.96 James I haven't really. I haven't. actually what because everything happens so fast. So I i can honestly tell you that I haven't stopped. to to verify if it's one shotting with one model or doing the critique or the other one. 28:35.19 Frank Right. 28:37.38 James Um, Because it all just kind of happens fast. you know. 28:41.70 Frank Yeah. 28:42.46 James And I would say that. I'm not sure if I Like do or don't care. I'm not really positive, right? Because. I'm going to get a result at the end of the day and I don't even get to pick which mode it's in. So it's going to try to figure out the best result. So. 28:55.85 James i'm interested to like down the road if that evolved and i pay more attention to it But I feel like I'm just like and go and and I just like I'm hoping and picking that it. figures out the right thing you know what i mean 29:06.86 Frank Mm hmm. Yeah. 29:07.90 James So... 29:09.11 Frank I don't know. It sounds like a winner. 29:11.69 James Very good. 29:11.94 Frank i've been I've been in kind of a funny mode. I've just been doing the idiot thing of just running everything through Opus. And I think I just go through phases like that sometimes. you know you're like 29:21.49 James Yeah. 29:22.27 Frank right now I'm trusting Opus, you know, eventually it'll break my trust and then I'll switch over to some other one. 29:24.59 James Yeah. 29:27.68 Frank But I like the idea in Fusion, to're like, well, I don't know what model I'm using, so I can't really blame any particular model. So part of me wants to do it just to free my mind in that way. 29:36.81 James Yeah. I think that I Yeah, it's it's a good I've. I've mostly... Yeah. Stop picking. I was using soul six one for a long time and I was obviously picking like Luna for a lot of things. 29:49.71 Frank Mm hmm. 29:49.75 James And I think it just depends on the day of like what I'm coding. Right. Like if I'm doing like UI work, like. ui work ui work like i will say 29:57.44 Frank Yeah. 29:58.68 James Like it doesn't actually get any better than Opus. Like it's just too good at UI work. Now. 30:03.30 Frank Right. 30:04.08 James That being said... So it was very expansive. But. Like. fusion even on like high or max or whatever Like. blends in these different tools and it will blend in a little bit of Opus with a little bit of others. 30:17.72 James So it blends these tools in. So you're getting a little Opus in there. 30:19.60 Frank Right. 30:20.53 James You're getting a little bit of this. and not for all the the context of it. so I think that that. When I did this thing recently. example was i picked just like a normal like i think maybe the soul 6 one i was doing just some ui work and um didn't turn out great. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to try Copilot Fusion High. And I said, here's what I want out of this. It was captions. So you can see the caption, you can edit a caption, I had like this kind of design in my mind of editing, and there's not that much UI to play around with. 30:49.08 James And it like. one shot at it, like really good. 30:51.90 Frank Yeah. 30:51.81 James And I was like, wow, this is like, you really thought it even pulled in. Like, it's like, oh, I'm going to pull in. the the win ui community toolkit to make like the segmented controls better i'm du i was like all right bro i see what you're up to you know what i mean it it was and it was really good like it made this whole trade-off it was like 30:59.100 Frank Oh cool. 31:07.42 James I was implementing the captioning techniques and it was like, Hey, like. Let's make some decisions. This is in the planning mode. Let's make some decisions together. It's like, hey, like. let's talk about mac os and it's like mac os has this or you could do that and then and then it ran baseline tests and it spun up like vm like mini vms like on my machine i was like holy crap i was like this is bananas it was wild it was like really cool I was like, this is bananas. 31:23.52 Frank Oh gosh. 31:29.08 James so Anyways. Call out to that. 31:30.69 Frank Sounds like a lot of subagents. 31:32.47 James A lot of sub agents. And you know, the nice thing is when sub agents are just running. 31:33.93 Frank Yeah. 31:36.00 James school calls, or they build a script and run it, they're just waiting for the results. So it's not actually like token costs, right? 31:39.83 Frank Yeah. 31:41.27 James So that's fascinating. um the other thing that's really fascinating about All of this. In combination. is Like. Tiny clips. I think it's real software, Frank. 31:52.74 James I think it might be. 31:54.25 Frank Uh oh. 31:55.04 James real I think I may have. created real software. 31:58.63 Frank real software like You're solving a legit problem for people other than yourself? or it's real software like it crossed the threshold from being like 32:04.73 James Yeah. 32:08.72 Frank This tool that did one thing. to like... it's a proper tool one. I could charge professionals for this tool. but What kind of... what kind of um boundary do you have in your mind? 32:20.42 James I think... The first one. For sure. The second one. 70%. 32:27.43 Frank Okay. 32:27.60 James So i maybe the first one, 80%, this is why it's like almost, I think, right? 32:31.30 Frank Ah, okay, you think. 32:31.16 James Maybe I said, maybe, I don't know. 32:32.52 Frank Okay. 32:33.06 James So I think maybe the first one is like 80 % and the second one's like 60 or 70%. So I'll explain. I do believe that. And I know because I have a lot of people that. 32:43.67 James I'm now getting more people than ever using the software. talking about the software, recommending the software to other people like on Twitter and tagging me. 32:51.13 Frank Ooh. word of mouth that that's the good stuff yeah 32:54.92 James And, and then people being like, Oh, I like, I use it. And then like, I love it. Or like this other thing, or like so much that it even like inspired someone that was like tiny clips is so cool. I don't know. You can make that type of software. With vibes. 33:07.01 James and then they're like but i had this special use case for like someone was like i needed special software to edit my gopro footage in a certain way like i'm never going to implement whatever they need and they vibed it out and it was like inspired by tiny clips just for them i was like that's cool but the 33:07.32 Frank ah 33:17.60 Frank Mm-hmm 33:19.54 James The most recently last week has been like... On multiple platforms, people like, have you tried Tiny Clubs? Have you here have you heard the news? And I was like... Oh, okay. 33:26.81 Frank Wow. 33:27.20 James that's scary type of thing because i i launched 2 .0 in the studio mode and i've spent a lot of work on you know just performance and a bunch of other things And that's been good. The other part of it is... 33:38.63 James Yeah, it has a... ah bunch of features, right? like 33:42.39 Frank Yeah. 33:42.67 James I. I, um, the, we did, we use tiny clips as like a demo app and a bunch of people contributed on from the team, like Burke and Pierce and Katie and Julia. we added tons of all new cool features and then i launched studio mode Studio Mode came out, which is an all-in-one. 33:59.34 James like video editor you record your audio video it does morphs it does overlays it does 34:01.05 Frank Alright. 34:04.48 Frank ha 34:05.29 James um you know, zooms and it does all these things, records your mouse clicks, does all this stuff. And now I'm adding annotations. I'm adding... 34:13.11 Frank Cheers. 34:13.02 James like You can do arrows and blurring. 34:13.94 Frank Hmm. 34:14.97 James You can do captioning. You can do caption overlays. You can export it at different resolutions, right? You can do all this stuff. 34:19.67 Frank Hmph. 34:20.63 James And then I just added this agent mode. Like you can just have your agent control it and then do the thing. 34:23.56 Frank Yeah. 34:25.55 James Like that is. kind of crazy. Now I'm not saying it's like the world's best software, but I will say this. is I got my... subscription notice from Camtasia? 34:36.37 James And they're like, hey, your credit card needs to be updated or else we're going to cancel your subscription. And I was like. Thank you, mate. 34:42.51 Frank Hmm. 34:42.56 James need to cancel my subscription i don't know 34:44.69 Frank Yeah. 34:45.58 James There's a few things that are like lacking that it obviously does is like combining multiple of videos, but I'm like, I'm clearly on. i'm clearly on like a road here for like next steps you know so 34:55.53 Frank Yeah. 34:56.20 James I think I built real software. and now Might have been an accident. For better or worse, I don't know. 35:01.24 Frank It's It's sounding like you have like, it's a funny time because I think like all the, um, adobe clones have been coming out and the office clones like i think people are realizing like These AIs, are they're more useful than doing stupid security audits and all that. 35:17.94 Frank They are actually able to generate real software. Again, putting ourselves out of business, but you know, one one step at a time. 35:24.96 James Yeah. 35:24.94 Frank But we'll put big businesses out of business before we put ourselves out of business. um but Yeah. um I'm really curious when you actually give up that Camtasia subscription. You know, when when you've created custom software for yourself and you can actually throw away someone else's subscription. 35:43.75 Frank then I think you've definitely made it. It sounds like you're almost there though. way i I don't know what you're talking about with your merging videos or any of that nonsense, but um I've used a lot of screen capture software in the past. 35:57.02 Frank And you surpassed... those from a future perspective months ago. 36:00.78 James um Thanks. 36:02.63 Frank um so i have no clue what you're adding it sounds like i need to run this app some more and see what and craziness you've been adding to it um but i know like you basically hit um feature parity for things I used to use. back in the day. 36:16.27 Frank um So. I don't have to say all that. and Congratulations. And i'll I'll keep spreading the word. Keep spreading the word. 36:22.23 James Spread the good news. Yeah. Well, and then I'll have, you know, I'll have a Dingus integration soon. That's for sure. I'll point it at the docs and it'll do a thing. 36:28.89 Frank Yeah. You know how you and actually can tell if you've made real software is if your support email is too many to get to in one day. Like you don't actually want it. 36:39.98 Frank That's when you're like, oh God, I created real software. I would actually have to turn this into a business or at least get another agent just responding to emails, not writing code. 36:42.79 James Yeah. 36:48.24 James Yeah. Ah. Um, Well. 36:51.94 Frank Well, that's fantastic. 36:53.58 James Let's talk about a few more things and then you got to be off. 36:56.25 Frank Mm-hmm 36:55.96 James Let's skip this next one on Android. Let's go straight through the new gate because this one came out and I thought this was pretty cool because you were talking about skills and bundling. 36:57.65 Frank Okay. Ooh. 37:02.71 Frank Yeah. 37:03.09 James But now as a .NET developer... But do we just put everything in a nougat package? 37:07.78 Frank I think so. Yeah. 37:08.73 James I think so. 37:08.62 Frank Yeah, I think we should put videos. and We should but just make it a whole pirating service. No, I'm just kidding. um Don't do that. Probably against the terms of services, I assume. Anyway, what you can do now, James, do you like skills? 37:21.57 Frank I like skills. We all like skills. 37:22.91 James Love is cool. 37:24.49 Frank Do you release a library and people only know how to use the surface features of that library? Probably, if you're like me, because you don't document the library well. Well, what if you could bundle skills with your NuGet libraries? 37:31.71 James o 37:37.08 Frank And there is official support for this now. 37:36.81 James Ooh. 37:41.12 Frank And it's... 37:41.21 James Hmm. 37:42.09 Frank pretty dang clever because now um you can put markdown files john gruber must be so happy he's taken over the world you can put markdown files into your new jays 37:54.58 James Oh my gosh. 37:54.85 Frank And then um I... Probably they just get auto-included. I don't know how to not include them, but if they're they're in your new J's. I don't know which agents support this. To be honest, um hopefully they'll all pick it up eventually. Anthropic will probably be the last one because they're the they're the bit boneheads of the group. But I'm sure all the good harnesses out there will just pick up all the skills. 38:20.23 Frank that libraries developers library developers put in there. Which I think is fantastic because you can expose the more interesting, um well, obviously take care of the normal use cases. for the library, but then some of the more edgy use cases of the library. I also get a tiny bit nervous that people are going to put 500 skills with, you know, 8 million tokens each into my libraries and then I will have to filter them out. but 38:46.31 Frank Overall, I think this is... Pretty dang cool. So I'm sure you could have, I didn't double check, but I think you can have skills only nougats. but I think you can also just have skills for library nougats and things like that. 39:01.06 Frank Anyway, really cool to see the nougat team. 39:01.43 James Good call. 39:03.72 Frank Um, making this basically easy. for all of us. 39:07.03 James This is great. One thing that I want to point out is not just for libraries, right? Because you can ship full blown. Perhaps. 39:12.70 Frank Sure. 39:14.05 James You know, I have outro kit, which is in a. 39:14.92 Frank Yeah, why not? DNX that, baby. yeah 39:16.62 James DNX it. DNX all of it. I mean, literally my... I have the DNX MCP server for Tiny Clips. Like I could just put skills inside of there that are there and readily available. I think this is nice because a lot of times you see your agents having to go like inspect the NuGet package and inspect the IL, go pull the Remys and do this stuff. 39:26.94 Frank Mhm. 39:34.56 James It's like, oh, it's all right there, right? Which I think is nice. 39:36.61 Frank Yeah. 39:36.56 James I can see SQLite being like super. nice for this. And I'll call it in the blog, they call out like .NET Inspect. 39:44.74 Frank Hmm. 39:44.35 James that's a great one right like here's how you do used on an inspect for example or They have all their .NET package skills. And you can imagine like the Nuke and MCP, like all these things that are. coming in so i really like This is really cool. It seems like an interesting attack factor, like they call it in the blog, but I'm also and interested in like. you know. 40:02.51 James How it. gets deployed. However, that being said, It doesn't seem like there's anything to stop us today from just like going and doing this for sure. so I guess I'm in. 40:13.74 James Um, 40:14.18 Frank Oh, i'm I'm in. Yeah. It makes perfect sense because personally, I don't shop around for skills. 40:18.52 James Yeah. 40:21.04 Frank I'm kind of a bad agent user in that perspective. I never go to the marketplaces. Part of me just doesn't remember to. Like if I download someone's library, like you said, I just have it say like interrogate the IL, figure out what the stupid library can do and all that kind of stuff. 40:35.70 Frank um So this is nice because it's just automagic. I'll take that any day versus me. going skill shopping, even with all the like. All the clever ways they've made that. I don't like clicking the settings icon in any of these agents. I just don't like to. But if it's just included by default and people aren't abusing it. like i said putting one megabyte skills in for all of them then great. 41:02.11 James Dude, I'm going to do this right now inside of outro kit because I ship it. 41:04.05 Frank ah 41:05.40 James I was thinking we'd create some great skills and include them. in our package. 41:10.80 Frank Yeah. 41:11.54 James Like this 41:12.08 Frank We need a... a skill builder skill i mean most actually most of the agents have that so yeah you can 41:16.07 James Yeah. 41:19.14 Frank Just say, yeah. 41:19.28 James Now, bam. 41:21.47 Frank Did you? 41:21.04 James Go do it. I will say, I mean, yeah, I mean, why not just do it? I want to see what happens. Like, let's do it. So. 41:26.80 Frank Did you point it at the blog entry first? because 41:28.96 James Of course I did. Yeah. 41:30.02 Frank Yeah, because this is all pretty hot off the presses. 41:29.94 James I was like, go do it. Figure it out. 41:32.57 Frank I think and none of the models will have been trained on this. 41:33.28 James Yeah. 41:36.80 James No, but I think if they're just there and they can be I don't know where they're gonna unfold to but I'm that's really cool That's a good one 41:43.42 Frank Yeah. 41:43.97 James Um, Well, I'll ask Rich. He but he authored this blog post. 41:47.61 Frank Yeah, it was good to see Rich's name on a blog. 41:47.66 James so Better tell me. 41:50.40 Frank I love it. 41:51.21 James Yeah. 41:51.80 Frank Whenever I see his name on a blog, I'm like, oh, this is going to be something interesting. Mr. Lander. 41:56.31 James Totally. I'm Throwing this at... Baby Luna on X High. Let's go. Um, The copilot fusion is not available on the the the web yet. It's just auto. 42:06.46 James so um So, but soon I'm hoping that they put it on there because that'd be nice. 42:06.99 Frank Okay. Mm hmm. 42:10.50 James Um, We'll talk about our good friends over at .NET this week. 42:14.04 Frank Hehehe. 42:14.33 James Starting tomorrow is .NET Conf, .NET slash Conf. 42:16.79 Frank Yeah. 42:18.52 James um I vibed out some pretty sweet software, which is the cool social wall. um as well. 42:23.48 Frank Sweet. 42:23.62 James So you can see that I've been working on that this week, but well done at 11. Um, is off to the races. You may have been getting some emails from your friends over at Microsoft Azure telling you that you're. 42:34.71 James Versions of .NET. uh are reaching so end of support soon you better be updating them puppies 42:38.69 Frank oh No, oh no 42:40.49 James And then I, as soon as I got the email, I got the email for my functions and I was like. hey I was like, hey. i got this email can you go audit i said can you go audit every single azure 42:50.94 Frank o ge 42:51.49 James like deployment and it went and looked at all every single github repo that had deployments to azure and then did a whole like wrap on i guess i could have connected the azure mcp that or the cli would have been better but i just did it in the cloud from my phone i did it from my phone 42:52.76 Frank Oh no. 42:56.23 Frank Okay, okay. 43:00.67 Frank Yeah. ah 43:03.33 James right so i was like just go and do it And then it like went off and it was like, hey. you're good you're undone at 10 except for this one you should probably update but but it was like 43:10.77 Frank ah 43:11.93 James but it'll keep working. But... 43:13.82 Frank I wonder if you you you must have more repos than me. I would never think to run that kind of thing, but yeah, I probably should. 43:19.99 James I got 600. Yeah. 43:21.37 Frank Oh my god, yeah, you have more than me. 43:24.02 James yeah just tell it just do the thing it's really fast because like i don't know it's indexed and stuff I don't know. 43:25.81 Frank Just do it. 43:29.85 Frank Okay. 43:29.95 James Or you can just say like, Hey. 43:30.29 Frank Yeah. 43:31.83 James um Especially if you know them. The one thing I did recently was I did some audit and I was like, Hey, I want you to do an audit of. the last 100. you know repos that i've deployed from or whatever like go do a thing 43:43.86 Frank Mm hmm. Yeah. 43:45.19 James But obviously, but those might not be it. so you know you'd have to go figure it out but just tell it to search every single repo it'll it'll figure it out 43:49.86 Frank Yeah. Yeah. Well, I had to... um I was... ah Sorry, so to be clear to everyone, um it's .NET 8 and 9 are reaching end of life. um 44:02.60 James Wow, like... In four days. 44:04.68 Frank Yeah. 44:05.49 James Ah! 44:04.99 Frank Hi. 44:06.60 James Wow. 44:07.23 Frank Get converting. 44:06.78 James Hello. 44:08.95 Frank This one I'm not too worried about because I find getting up to .NET 10 is nuts. really that hard there's not too much from uh um 44:14.56 James Yeah. 44:16.75 Frank from us. Dev perspective, big difference between 8 and 10. Obviously, there's a lot of internal improvements and all that kind of stuff. But I find upgrading to be pretty easy between them, especially for the Xcode 27 SDK. 44:30.59 Frank I had to upgrade to 10 .0 .402 SDK. 44:33.94 James Oh yeah. That was fun. 44:35.21 Frank I love doing like that. oh Not really, but locking all my workloads to a very specific version so I can support the right SDK and all that. 44:43.46 James Yeah. 44:45.42 Frank so i just did the 10 to 10 migration. And I actually had some build failures because I compile with warnings as errors. And so whenever they improve the null reference annotations... 45:00.24 Frank They're not technically breaking changes because they're warnings, but to people like me who have warnings set to errors, it's kind of a breaking to change. It's not too big of a deal because it's finding bugs in your code. You assumed that thing was... 45:14.23 Frank never going to be null. Now it can be null. 45:16.54 James know 45:16.70 Frank It's annoying, but... um Those are kind of the... Those are the changes I'm happy to make. I'm not happy, but I'm okay making because technically it should make my code better. or less crashy, all that kind of stuff. 45:28.41 Frank But I found these upgrades to be. Pretty easy. The only thing I regret is I was just telling some people to just use .NET 8 because I'm like, it's LTS. I didn't realize what year it was. 45:38.91 Frank So I should have been telling people, just go to 10. Go to 10. Don't bother with 8. Just go to 10. So I need to backtrack a few things I told some people. 45:43.68 James Yeah, let's go to 10. 45:46.61 James 10 10 10 go go go yeah i mean and emails just go to 11 i mean it is s sts support so it's 24 months. 45:47.27 Frank But. Yeah. 45:52.57 Frank Is it? 45:53.39 James So like. I don't know. 45:55.45 Frank Yeah. 45:55.57 James Why not? ah 45:56.79 Frank Nah, I'll wait for 12. 45:57.66 James What's the difference? 45:58.34 Frank I'm just kidding. 45:59.61 James Hmm. and Go, go, go. 45:59.50 Frank We'll see. 46:00.86 James So we'll find out. Well, ah you know, .NET Conf is on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, I think. So check it out at .NET slash Conf or just go to .NET. net .microsoft .com and or any of the .NET Conf websites. 46:10.94 Frank nice 46:12.48 James there's like Five of them. 46:14.02 Frank Oh, geez. 46:15.79 James But yeah, it starts um tomorrow. So if you're listening to this on the 1st, tomorrow, November 10th. with a scott hanselman keynote that should be fun then we got a what's new in c sharp Then we got our. tried and true state of ASP .NET Core and Blazor. oh moving .net ahead of time with chat you know that's going to be good wow that's funny We have a win forms. 46:38.01 James uh session amazing with klaus we gotta 46:38.30 Frank Woo! Whew! Never die, win forms. 46:41.51 James .NET AI Stack, .NET MAUI with Gerald, C Sharp Dev Kit 11. They've made a lot of changes. Things are popping down. um they There's a whole thing on how they improved. 46:53.36 James MSBuild? with multithreaded. 46:54.88 Frank Oh gosh. Oh, that's good. 46:56.10 James That's cool. 46:57.25 Frank I was just complaining. 46:57.89 James Yeah. 46:58.33 Frank like And let's build needs more multi-threading. That's funny. I was complaining about that today. 47:02.88 James There's a Maddie Montequilla talk on Aspire, of course. This is gonna be... This is coming out of the woodwork 47:10.72 Frank Yeah. 47:10.45 James Barry Dorans. The security guy. 47:12.31 Frank Oh. 47:13.16 James He's got a talk called Too Secure. 47:13.64 Frank Okay. 47:15.25 James Too curmudgeon. curmudgeon only. Uh, 47:19.26 Frank I always skip the securities, but maybe I'll watch that one. 47:21.60 James That will be entertaining. It's going to talk about, I think he's going to talk about SVE. Best feed, whatever they're called. 47:26.28 Frank Okay. Yeah. 47:27.72 James We have a get a copilot talk down at 11 numerics with Tanner. That's cool. 47:31.84 Frank Ooh, I like those. 47:32.46 James Um, another aspire talk while down at runtime v next 47:36.92 Frank Uh oh. 47:37.02 James What? Well, man. 47:37.96 Frank We just got to 11. See, I told you, just wait for 12. 47:41.22 James Yeah. Post quantum. Cryptography, that's crazy. 47:44.82 Frank Buzzwords. 47:44.59 James And then bringing .NET Run, Test, and Watch to .NET MAUI. A whole lot of good stuff there. Then we got Visual Studio Keynotes the next day. blazer server mcp we got a whole mcp talk with styles even that's cool windows apps with winui that's cool agentic UI future. So day two is really like. 48:02.21 James Pretty AI-y. 48:03.02 Frank Okay. 48:02.96 James That's cool. I'm into that. CodeGen. A little Maui talk with Gerald. No XAML required. That's cool. 48:10.25 Frank Yeah. 48:10.71 James Some Azure talks. 48:11.04 Frank I'll see you. 48:11.93 James That's cool. C sharp file-based apps turned up to 11 with Damien, of course, foundry EF core 11, a whole bunch of stuff. And then the next two days after that are all. are all Community Talks. 48:25.08 James So day three and four are all community. 48:25.35 Frank Okay. The fun ones. 48:26.85 James Yep. ah Fun ones. That's right. All right, man, I'm going to let you get to the airport. That's going to do it for this week's Merge Conflict. 48:32.94 Frank Bye. 48:33.62 James Let us know how you're done at Confluent by heading to mergeconflict .fm or go to our YouTube. youtube .com forward slash app Merge conflict FM. 48:44.13 James We're doing pretty great over there. If you are so inclined and want to. Like and subscribe and smash that. like button. We are at 957 subscribers on our road to one K by the end of the year. 48:56.42 James we got some stuff there and we're doing pretty good we got lots of watch minutes and hours You know, we're we're never going to hit the requirements that YouTube requires for us to monetize. 49:07.41 James But we are two thirds the way there, which is pretty good. So keep up coming, people. 49:10.03 Frank Come on, everyone. now. 49:11.62 James Yeah, I mean... it's a podcast getting some listen, so I appreciate it. 49:15.18 Frank Cool. 49:15.23 James ah That's gonna do it for this week's March conflict. Until next time. 49:18.54 Frank And I'm Frank Krueger. Thanks for watching and listening. 49:21.74 James Peace.