Hey, Voices of the Bench community! Eric Neuhaus, Marketing Manager at Ivoclar here. Bring greater efficiency and flexibility to your denture workflow with Ivoclar, Ivoclar's digital denture system. Ivoclar helps labs reduce manual production steps while delivering predictable, high-quality aesthetics. With new shade options available in both Ivoclar Dent Multi and our Ivoclar Monolithic discs, you can broaden your offering and deliver more personalized results. Reach out to your local Ivoclar representative today and discover What  Ivoclar can do for your lab. Bar, we're heading back to NOLA Lab Fest.
Again? Come on, who let us back in? That's a pretty bold move on their part.
Very bold. I'm not sure how we convince them to sponsor us, but either way, we'll be recording live from the Hilton New Orleans Riverside, October 16th and 17th.
And guys, do not forget, on Thursday the 15th, Jude Grayson is running a half-day workshop for lab owners and department leaders, also sponsored by Hyperdent.
Naturally. You know the night kicks off with the distillery.
To her right now you are speaking my language Elvis.
Easy there Barb easy slow down anyways I promised Jordan we'd mention hyper dent a thousand times a thousand a thousand hyper dent that's five Hey, it all a heads up, man. We're getting there. So if you're coming to LabFest, come hang out with us. We'll be chilling with the best HyperDent crew, grabbing guests, talking shop, and eating way, way too many beignets.
Yeah. Are you ready to host Lab Family Feud?
I've been shopping for outfits for a couple weeks now.
I know you have, but please don't.
It's too late, Barb. It's already sequenced. It's ready to go.
Of course. I knew you wouldn't disappoint, but what should everybody check out while they're there?
Well, don't forget, Roland DGA will be there too. They're running a CAM trade-in special.
Oh, so I can finally retire that old mill in the corner of mine.
No, Slow down. Keep the mill. Trade in your old CAM software instead.
And let me guess, for Hyperdent.
Aha, we've said it seven times. It will unlock the true potential of that Roland mill, new or old. You'll see better milling quality, faster milling times, and with the Elevit denture solutions, it'll mill Ivotion dentures too.
Now that's a trade-in that I can get behind. And although I guess it's too late, we're already using it at my lab.
Good call.
Registration's open now at Nola Lab. Fest.com and spots are limited.
Hyperdent.
Eight.
992 to go. Let's do it. Hyperdent. Hyperdent. Hyperdent. Hyperdent.
Thank you, Hyperdent.
Hyperdent. Hyperdent. Hyperdent. Welcome to Voices from the Bench, a dental laboratory podcast. Send us an e-mail at info at voicesfromthebench.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Greetings and welcome. Live from LabFest in New Orleans, episode 447. My name is Elvin.
My name's Barbara.
What's happening, Barb? Look at this. I'm looking at you while we're doing this.
It's been a while. I know. Right on. It's been a great meeting, great entertainment, great lectures, great interviews.
Oh, absolutely.
And I get to hang out with you all day. So I'm fantastic.
It's the best of both worlds. I tell you, it's been a great meeting. The speakers have been good. The attendance has been good. The amount of people that have been here have been good. The parties have been good. Masquerade party. I'll tell you, walking into the Mardi Gras world, what was it, a museum or something? And they had these huge styrofoam things they were using on the float since it was just unreal. But what a great, thank you, Hyperden for sponsoring us, giving us your table. And of course, Noak for putting on yet a great thing. Yesterday I did the Lab Fest. A little bit of a show, but what? That's half the fun. That's kind of how you roll. That's half the fun. Yeah. I know. I mean, I go in there with no plan and that's how it comes up. And you execute. Yeah. Well, good for you. So today we're doing a follow-up to that actually. So the winners of Lab Feud are now doing a game called Say What? That's nice.
That ought to be fun.
That's here in about an hour. So we'll see how that goes. Hopefully less of a show. What a great time.
All right.
But I'll tell you this week, we're actually, we're finally checking something off of our guest wish list. After years of trying to get someone from True Abutment on the show, we finally made it happen. And we're joined by the one and only Jay Shin, who's here to talk about how he went from running a dry cleaners in a Coke restaurant to becoming part of our dental lab industry. We get into the history of True Abutment, how the company built its reputation on making implant components easier and more predictable for dental labs, and how it's expanding into some pretty exciting and new technology. We talk about the IO Connect, the T Marker, the future of full arch workflows, 3D printing, and even some developments that can bring facial scanning and treatment planning right into your own. It's insane what True Abutment does. There's a lot happening and Jay's here to make some sense of it. So join us as we chat with Jay Shin.
Your customers are checking you out on social media long before they ever fill out a form or pick up the phone. By the time they reach you, they've already made-up their mind. That's why social matters. But making content is hard. Showing up consistently is harder. Inconsistency is the whole game. Accounts that go from posting just two times a week to five times a week see way more impressions per post and five times the engagement. The more consistently you show up, the more it pays off. That's why we built iCortica Social. Yes, something new and exciting from iCortica. With iCortica Social, you can create, schedule, publish, and report on social media, all in one place. And the best part is that your whole team can contribute content. Just place a QR code wherever the work happens in the lab, at an event, and your team can grab what's already on their phone and send it straight to marketing to turn into a social post. As always, our goal at iCortica is to make it easy for you to grow. iCortica Social works as a standalone app too, so no existing iCortica subscription is needed. And it can be used by anyone looking to improve their performance on social. Check it out at icortica.com/social. ICORTICA.com slash social.
Attention, dental lab owners and managers! Think about your daily workflow. Are you still hunting through piles of paper invoices? Are doctors texting you to see if a crown is even finished? Are you logging into six different portals just to grab digital scans from your doctors? You didn't start a dental lab to become a full-time paper wrangler. It's time to streamline your business with Lab and Cloud. Built by techs just like you, for you. Lab and Cloud is the ultimate all-in-one platform engineered to run your entire lab. With over 90 powerful features, you can automate everything. You can track cases in real time, generate smart invoices, manage local delivery and shipping, and handle employee time tracking. All from a single, cloud-based dashboard. Even better, your doctors will get a dedicated portal to submit cases seamlessly. In your digital scanner files, they route automatically into your workflow, completely secure with full HIPAA compliance. Stop burning time on administrative chaos, scale your business, delight your dentist, and take back your day! Visit labingcloud.com right now to book your free personalized demo. That's L-A-B, the letter N, cloud.com. Labing Cloud, your lab simplified. The operating system for dental labs built for techs by techs. Hey, just mention Elvis is handsome and get one month free. Voices from the bench. The interview. No worries, man. We're going to get into it. So Barb and I are extremely happy today because finally, after years and years of wanting somebody from True Abutment to come on this podcast, we finally connect with Jay Shen. How are you, sir?
Hello, Very excited to be here. A little freaked out, but yes.
Really easy. Elvis is the one that should be freaked out.
I'm always freaked out, but I've been a fan of true abutment for a long time. The lab I work with, Derby, uses a lot of it, the parts and pieces. I love, you know what I love most about it? It's just easy, honestly. I mean, there's a lot of people out there doing the same kind of thing. But true abutment has always been easy, consistent, and never had any issues. And we're done. No, I'm just kidding. Perfect. All right.
Nice knowing you guys.
It's one big hug. I do. I love the parts. I love the pieces. I mean, I even worked for a competitor for a while, and still, I mean.
I really appreciate that.
Absolutely.
Kind words.
Yeah, so Jay, I mean, we're going to get into True Abutment, the history and everything, but what about you yourself? Where do you start into this world?
So I'm not a dental or technician background. I've actually learned everything that I know about the dental industry at True Abutment.
So what were you doing before True Abutment?
Yeah, you got to go way back, Jay. You need your like early 20s, what you were doing, and then how you found True Abutment.
That's a lot of ways back. I come from an immigrant family who owned a typical Korean immigrant family, I would say, who started with donut shops and then went to, and then me and my brother, right after I graduated high school, we went into business of owning dry cleaners.
That's pretty cool. So hold on, so did your parents move to US?
They did. In 94, they moved to the United States.
That's a big old deal. How old were you?
I was five years old.
Yeah, that had to have been a huge transition and a huge risk on their part.
No, 92. I'm sorry. 92 was 92 was when they moved. That's right.
Yeah, but still, I mean, at 5 years old, it must have rocked your world.
I mean, I I didn't know anything, so.
You barely remember it.
Yeah, the first couple of years was pretty rough, but, you know, after picking up English, luckily I landed in Sachse, Texas. I'm sure a lot of people don't know where that is. I don't.
No, where is it?
It's right next to Garland.
Sachse, Texas.
It's spelled S-A-C-H-S-E. It's next to Garland. Just wanted to make sure. It's next to Garland, Texas, and it's I was at my elementary school had three, three, three Asian kids total, including myself, and two of them did not speak a word of Korean. Wow.
Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. Okay.
So I had to pick up English pretty quickly.
And your parents came over and opened a donut shop.
Yeah. They came here for, you know, all the immigrant family come here for the opportunities to make sure their kids are, you know, going to schools.
And you chose Texas, which is weird. That's okay.
Yep, Texas was the state. I don't know why my parents chose Texas, but yeah.
You should ask them why they chose Texas. I think it's like Detroit, Pittsburgh, you know, different rates.
Usually it's California. Yeah.
That's very interesting. So what, they ran this donut shop and then eventually opened laundry or you opened laundry?
So in 2005, we first acquired our dry cleaners.
Dry cleaners, yeah.
Yep. And then we, so we had one in California. It was in San Clemente, California. Everyone moved out to California in 2005. So it was a failing business. We revived it. And in 2008, we sold the business.
For a profit.
For profit, and then we moved back to South Lake, Texas.
Oh, okay.
And we own Foster's Cleaners, which was the biggest dry cleaners at that time in the United States.
In the United States.
In the United States. That's pretty spectacular. Just giving you a shout out.
We're gonna get to teeth eventually, but how did you go from one in California selling it to the largest in the United States? How did that, I mean?
We were in a lot of debt, let's just say that. Well, yeah. But I mean, the cleaners here, we did pretty well with.
I would imagine.
In the three years. And we used that as a seed money, a down payment for the biggest dry cleaners. And that cleaners had 26 employees, eight part-time employees, and then four managers, plus three drivers.
Geez. And then what, you ended up running on one of them or?
So me and my brother ran that from 2008 to 2010, and then we bought another cleaners out here in Lake Forest and Chino Hills. Yeah. And my parents said, well, I think you should go live out in California because California is a better environment for you to grow. So I moved out here in 2010. And from there, I ran the business till 2017. I passed it off to my brother. I jumped into restaurant business.
Wow. You opened a restaurant.
Honestly, I opened a restaurant.
I have a lot of background on running companies, to be honest.
Well, not very well, I will say. I wasn't very good at it. What was the restaurant you opened? I had a small Pokey shop in Irvine, Irvine, California. And I had that from 2017 to 2022, and COVID kind of led to its closure. Sure.
So surprised.
But in between 2017, After about a year of running the pokey business, it started running its own, running by itself. In between that, I was building computers as a side job.
So hold on. So how do you build computers as a side job? Like how did you get into that? Were you bored? Obviously you didn't have enough to do.
Yeah.
So I used to do it. It was a little hobby of mine since high school. Yeah. So I was building computers, and a good friend of mine, his older brother, worked for True Abutment.
Ah, there we go. There's the link.
Yeah. He's the head of the Digital Solution Center at True Abutment. And my friend said, Hey, my brother needs a computer for his new company that's starting up, and they need design computers. Can you help? So we got connected. And I started building computers for Truro Abutman, and Daniel is the gentleman's name, who's head of the Digital Solution Center, and he said-?
Yeah, he's amazing.
Yep, and he said, Hey, do you have someone that can work for Truro Abutman? We're hiring people. And he explained the whole company to me, and I said, That sounds fascinating, and I wanna learn it. Oh.
What did you know about teeth and implants back then?
I had never known they put things in the mouth that are shaped as such.
I should say with metal.
Yeah, nothing. I had no idea. I knew about crowns, but I didn't realize there were implants, titanium parts, and it just sounded really fascinating to me. So I said, I want to learn it. if it's okay with you, can I just, can I come in for about a year and just learn the industry? And that was 8 1/2 years ago, so. Oh, geez.
So what was that like? So they brought you in and you literally just over the shoulder trained.
Yeah. So I started working at the Digital Solutions Center Department. So they do custom abutment design for labs. And that's what I learned initially, scanning, checking model stone models with analogs, making sure that the prescription that they've sent matches the model that they've sent, the tooth numbers, checking the analog. So I've gone through a lot of analogs, checking what they are, what implant systems they are, what they're compatible with. Since we do quite a bit of systems, we support.
Quite a bit of systems. Oh, sure.
Yeah.
So this all started with people sending in models.
I can't believe that. So initially we were, when I was first at Trip, we were receiving about 20 to 30 models a day. Wow. Now, I mean, we'll get maybe two a week, maybe.
Really, interesting.
Yeah, now it's all digital, but. Yeah, for sure. When I first started, there was a lot of models, but I'm actually glad that it was a lot of models, 'cause that helped me quite a bit to recognize analogs and different connections, 'cause I'm more of a visual learner where I have to see things. And digitally, you can't really do that, so.
So those were all analog impressions.
All impressions, impressions. We didn't pour any models, but we had a lot of stone models come in from our clients.
So the clients would send the stone models, and what would you guys do? Explain it to me.
So we would take the models. engage the scan bodies, and we would scan the models so that I can pass it off to our design team to design.
That's crazy. So you get all of impressions, or do the doctors pour the models and then send them to you back in 2012?
It's all labs that would send us stone models back in 2000-- this was 2018. So I was hired by Troubleman in May of 2018. And I just went through scanning models, checking analogs. And that's what I did probably for the first three, four months. And the QCing the abutments that have come out from the factory and then checking them on the models to make sure that they were in the right orientation, they were the right occlusal height, what have you. And then after that, I went, I started So, Daniel, he said, Hey, you want to try designing a custom locator case?
Uh-oh.
Oh, yeah.
That's the point of person you got.
They got you right there.
Yeah, custom locator and custom multi-unit. He started me off with the locator case. And I started, it was about, what, late 2019 when I started designing locator case, 2018?
And then, at that point, did you know what a locator was? Did you understand the function and purpose?
Yes, So, Daniel did explain it to me, what it did, what it was for. I knew that it was for adventures, and then I knew what multi-units were. We went through a whole, like a little training session.
Function and purpose. Those are big words coming from the elbow. Like, wow, who are you today?
Geez, I don't know. It's true though.
So you got the basics of it all, and you knew where you were going and where you were headed before you ever started.
Yeah.
Did they send you to a lab to see like what happened there?
I did visit a couple labs.
Yeah, okay.
Yes. So I did, during the first few months, I did visit different labs here and there and see the end process. Sure. So I followed an abutment and then made sure, some labs, they still scan the abutment again, or a lot of our labs just go through a split file process. They designed the abutment and crown together and as soon as they get the abutment, they just seat the crown and they check it and they send it.
Yeah, absolutely. So how did your first custom locator case go?
It went well. Oh good, yeah. I had a lot of guidance and a lot of people, a lot of safety nets, I would say. That Daniel just made sure that everything was okay and it went well.
I'm sure when True Abutment started, most people wanted you all to do the designs.
Yes, quite a bit. And we were, we try to push a lot of our clients to do their own designs because they are, you know, they're in contact with their doctors and they know the case better than we actually do. So we just see they see it on paper and on the screen and they actually know the doctors. Right. Yeah. So we did quite a bit, but nowadays we don't, we're trying to, we're still trying to move away from it. And we are seeing a slight decline as we are trying to move away from doing designs on our own.
And why do you think that is? Well, you said slight decline. So it's by design.
So a lot of people are, it's more economical to design at the lab. And it gives the lab more control because they can design the abutment and crown at the lab. Whereas we don't design the crown for the lab. We just design an abutment and we send the core file, a digital core file, so they can design the crown on top of that. So a lot of the labs, they just like to design the crown right on top. So it's just more control for them. So I think that's by design, like you said, Bart.
Yeah. it's much better to design an abutment with the crown in mind than it is to Guessimate, I guess.
That's very true, yes.
So do you guys help labs through this? Like if they don't really know what they're doing, do you guys train them or like kind of walk them through this whole process?
I mean, we can do simple training where we do like a step-by-step walkthrough. But in terms of actual designing, we would actually recommend that they would get training somewhere else, like at a seminar or...
Right.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
So what is your role now? I mean.
So at the end of 2024, I moved into our, what's it called? Lab, so it's called L1. So we are in charge of all the labs from Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, and all the way to Hawaii and Alaska.
Hawaii.
Come on.
Sounds like you need to go visit some labs out there.
That's what I've been trying to tell our team here.
Road trip. Wow.
Yeah. So I've been doing that. I've been doing this for now two years now already. Goodness me.
What does that mostly entail? Just communication or reaching out to get their work or what is it?
It is mostly communication with existing clients. We do also work on doing, reaching out, trying to get, acquire new clients. We do client visits. There's quite a few, most of the labs are in California, so we do quite a bit of visits here. We reach out and we visit them, try to make sure all the needs are supported. We try to make sure that you know, their voices are heard and whatever concerns they may have. So, yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I do most of the day I would be on the phone or emails or out and about. So, I mean, even today I'll be going out over to Burbank today after this, so.
And what are you gonna do?
Yeah, just visit labs.
Yeah, so we, so there are a couple labs out in Burbank and one in Burbank, one in Northridge. They've recently purchased an Asiga printer from us. So I'll be going to them and then helping them set up because these labs have never done, they've never printed. So they're moving into the digital. the next phase of printing. So I'm going to go help them set up and then walk them through the printing process.
So weird to me that a lab in California, which you guys supposedly get everything first, is just now getting into printing. It's weird to me, but I guess that's the truth of it.
Yeah. A lot of labs that I've visited are still working with stone models and they just can't seem to get away from it.
So you guys sell printers?
Yes, we've recently partnered with Asiga specifically for resins 'cause we've acquired Dentka in early 2025.
Smart, yeah.
Yep. So we've, the True Bumman is now moving into the additive side of the industry.
Explain that when you say.
Additive, just for those that- Additive. So additive means dental resins. That's what we're moving into. Since Dentka is one of the very first companies, one of the CAD/CAM companies that have had the 510K process with the dentures, with their knowledge, we have recently come developed a flexible denture resin called True Flexible. And the 510K for that has passed in June. And we've started production on that. And hopefully it'll be launching later this month.
That's exciting.
Yeah.
Does it take a 24-hour salt bath?
That's crazy.
It does not, fortunately.
Yeah, I don't understand that, but whatever.
Yeah. So it doesn't. And it's currently validated on Asiga, Formlabs, and Rayshape. And we're talking with other companies trying to get them validated. Yeah.
That's fantastic.
Yeah. And it's been very exciting, very busy trying to get that out there. It's It can be used for partial and for full denture, and it's just flexible enough where you can use it for a full denture, so it's been very exciting.
I've heard a lot about those materials, like how do you guys sell that? Do you go in and train and do all of the ins and outs of the workflow once they buy the printer?
I mean, the printing itself is pretty simple. Like Elvis said, it doesn't require a 24-hour or how many hours it's supposed to bake in the salt. It's just a light cure resin. And if anyone's have ever printed anything at the lab, it'll be very similar work process.
Okay.
No actual training required, I would say.
Okay. That makes sense. But how does that like, How is true abutments and then the printing? How does that interact?
So, we actually sell the resins to the lab, and that's how we would interact with them, and if they do have issues with the printing process, they can call us and we can make sure. walk through the troubleshooting process.
So you guys are expanding your brand, basically. You're not just implants.
I was gonna say, this has gotta be the first thing that's not implant related, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so. And this will be one of many resins that we'll be coming out with. So True Flexible is one, and then we have a couple others in line.
They'll all be called True, whatever they are, True Model.
I'm not sure what the naming, the nomenclature is gonna be. Yeah. So we are playing around with it. So we'll see. We'll see what the reception is like.
So how did True Abutment start? I mean, did it start here in, I mean, there in California or what's the history of True Abutment?
Yeah. So in 2013 is when True Abutment first started. That's when product development, R&D started. And in 2015 was when we first got our 510K.
But why did it start? Who was it that was like, I want to make parts too.
So John Kim was the founder. And he had a great group of team where they had manufacturing background. And John Kim comes from, so he started dentists and he started Dentka. Dentist USA, not the dentist company. Dentist USA and then he started Denta and He wanted to be the best CAD/CAM company in the United States or in the world for that matter.
Sure. Why not aim high?
Yeah, and he saw he saw a little break in the market where a little disconnect I would say where customer moments were terribly expensive and a lot of people and and people were paying what 5, $600 back in the day for a custom development. And they didn't fit properly. So he saw, he's like, hey, I can do this better and we can do this better. So, and he wanted to make things easier. So that's one of the things that we strive for at TrueAbotment. We want to make sure that it's foolproof. Right? Yeah. If you know what you're doing, then this should be really, really easy for you. It should be.
Yeah.
And like you said, you know, a lot of, a lot of like what you mentioned is that Trobelman is easy to work with and consistent. And that's what they, that's what he saw that didn't really exist in the dental market, especially the lab market. And a lot of people had to work their actual magic to make things happen for doctors.
Yes, that's very true.
I agree.
Well said.
So we wanted to kind of, so John really wanted to support that and make sure that labs had an easier workflow that they could work with, easier workflows that they could rely on and to provide solutions for. So yeah, that's how Tropon started in 2013.
And was it custom abutments to start or was it stock parts? Oh, it just went right into custom.
Custom abutments. I mean, we did offer tie bases as well. But it was our bread and butter of our business is custom abutments.
And somebody.
Oh, you got to have, I got to ask this question because Elvis, you're amazing and you're an implant tech. Jay, same thing with you. But for somebody that doesn't know, because I'm a ceramist, what is it that makes True Abutments so special?
So one of the very first things that we stood out for was our split file. Back in the early 2010s, a lot of the labs, when they got an abutment, they had to put it back in the model and rescan the abutment to design the crown.
And powder it and whatever we needed to do and block out the screw hole.
Yeah, waxing, powder, sprays, 3D scan sprays that cost $40 a can, what have you. And all of that, we've kind of eliminated most of that process where our abutments were milled to a tolerance of five microns. So whatever you designed, whatever you designed is what you got as an abutment. And so you designed the crown and abutment together. And as soon as you get the abutment, just fit the crown right on top, make sure it fits, just check everything on the model and just send. So that's where we really stood out. And our pricing was a lot worse.
Yeah, it's very appealing to labs just because of the consistency too. I mean, you knew it's going to fit and you knew your split file was going to be good.
Right.
So, I mean, obviously true abutment grew into a lot more. I mean, when you introduced the custom locators, I mean, that was a game changer for a lot. I mean, how did that come about? Can we even call them locators? I don't think we probably could.
I think we have to say TL abutments.
TL abutments. So I've changed what I've just said, but I mean that was huge.
What does the T and the L mean?
True locator is what it means.
Not really.
Everything's true.
Right, So TL abutments is TL abutments and the custom, we call them AOTs, all on T, all on true. Yeah, AOT abutments. Yeah.
Got it.
But I mean, that had to come from a bunch of labs asking.
So that came about. out because, so there were these solutions that we just, you know, the labs goes, doctor, we just can't, we can't restore this. Yeah. Like, what were you thinking? The angles are so bad. Like these are so diverging. I mean, no, you can't.
I love that. No.
Right. Like no.
You can do, ************. Sorry. True though.
Exactly. And we were getting, they said, you guys are an innovative company. Is there something you can do? Yeah. So we started, we started development on locators and multi units and we've angled them. The craziest one I've done off the record is about 80 degrees.
80 degrees.
That is so smart though. I love it.
Was the implant in the nose?
It wasn't the hard palate. So it was a cancer patient. They have to cut away the upper upper maxilla and the the the doctor had to plant it into the hard palate. So yeah. And that one still stands. I keep in contact with that doctor and it's been seven years now. Still there. That's still there. That's still there. So kudos to the doctor.
No, for sure.
He planted that properly, I guess.
And then, I mean, your tie bases, your custom abutments, the all on T or the TL, what other things that really make you stand out? I know you have quite a few things going on.
Yeah, now I would say is our full arch solutions. IO Connect, T Marker, those have been very, very popular, very disruptive, I would say. to the industry. A lot of people who've been following us for quite some time know that we've had the T-marker before the IO Connect because we started showing it off probably 2018, 2019.
And the T-markers were supposedly photogrammetry with your phone, right?
Correct, correct.
Yeah, I remember seeing it years ago and everyone was really excited and then it just never really happened.
Right. So the development took a little while longer than we expected. I would imagine. And in between that, from TMarker, while we're developing TMarker, a couple of our clients said, well, you know, intraoral scanner is still fine, it's great, but we just want a better solution to scan with intraoral scanners. So we said, so we put, you know, our team had put our heads together, not me. I'm smarter than us. I would think it would be you actually. No. And so they said, well, we can, so the biggest issue with intro or scanners is that the more you scan, it becomes less accurate.
Yeah.
So our team said, well, why don't we just make the scanning area smaller? So we've came up with the horizontal scan bodies, IO Connect, and we've put them to the center of the mouth. It's about five, six seconds to scan the hexagons. that increase the scanning accuracy dramatically. Instead of doing what, 1000, thousand images on an intro scanner, you'll get away with less than 200 and so. A thousand.
Jesus. So you're saying these IO Connect scan bodies, you put them on the multi-units and they go in towards the pallet and they all touch each other and all you need to scan is that little part in the middle?
Yep, and that's where you get the implant positioning data. So you take that data, put it into our software. We have a free software called True Suite. And there's a little IO Connect module in that software and you'll be able to upload the scan from your scans to the IO Connect and then get your implant positioning data. And you'll be able to also swap out different scan bodies. So if the doctor's wanting OEM or what other parts that they want to use, you can just swap the healing caps out. So it's an open system and we don't close it off.
So the second scan, there's two scans, right? There's one with the IO connect and then there's one that you put on the healing abutments and you can use any one that gives you the soft tissue.
Right.
And that unlocks whatever screw you want to use.
Exactly.
This is where Elvis's genius comes out.
No, it's not genius, it's fascination. I've seen these things online, you know, obviously, but I didn't know all you needed to scan was the part where they touch in the middle. How do you do it lower? Just get the tongue out of the way.
Get your tongue out of the way, you just push it out. Or you can actually point them a little bit more towards the facial. and try to minimize as much as possible scanning area at least.
Yeah. We've had a lot of labs mentioned on the podcast. They send these kits out, you know, they like ship them out and that's they do. Yeah. I mean, that's super easy.
Yeah. We've had, we have quite a few labs out that are doing that now. They had, they just get a little box, little, little hard case.
Yeah.
And then they would just ship it out to the doctor for a fee. Or sometimes they go with the kit and they would charge a traveling fee.
So they come in different sizes, different shapes, and it's universal for all the MUAs. More than one time use, I hope.
Our IFU says 50 times. You can autoclave it up to 50 times.
Yeah.
I have known a couple clients who have used them more than 50 times. Oh, I guarantee you a lot.
We use it more than 50 times.
No way. But they last. They're all titanium, so they last quite a while.
And what's the accuracy on the microns?
Accuracy, I mean, it depends on who tests these tests.
Yeah.
I would say it's a bit of all over the place. I mean, KOIS has done a study where they said it's around 30 microns of accuracy. I mean, we've done internal tests where We didn't really test the total microns, but we've tested the passivity of our kits, and they work perfectly fine. And we have quite a few labs that are die-hard IO Connect fans now. Oh, you got a fan base, huh? Yep. So that's where our accuracy comes from. I mean, it works and it's passive. I can tell you the actual figures. They're probably all over the place. I mean, we've had a client that said it's more accurate than photogrammetry. Oh damn, now you're throwing that down.
I am done some fighting words, man. I know.
I know Elvis well enough to know that was up.
He's going to beat me. Those aren't my words, though.
I was like, I just spent how much for that photogrammetry? Yeah, exactly. It's hard to carry in an office. I'd like to walk through these little kit.
Yeah, and you got to warm, warm, warm up the camera and then calibrate it, all that good stuff. Yeah. So I will connect. I mean, right now we're currently seeing around 1500, a little, probably over 1500 now. Last time I checked was a couple months ago. per week usage in terms of our.
1500 cases a week. That's a lot.
That is a lot. Yeah, quite a bit.
Do people pay per sorry, Barbara real quick. Do people pay per use or is it? No, it's free. I mean, once you buy the kit, yeah, it's free. There was, I don't even know what company it was, but they tried to make it so you pay per use. I was like, you guys are insane.
Right. Yeah, exactly.
Sorry if you were saying.
Yeah, that's fine. No, I don't remember.
So this all came while you're developing the T Marker. So talk about that because yeah, I remember it was Chicago a while ago.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look at this, look at this. And people were like talking about it and then it never came. So yeah.
And then T Marker finally came about. It was what, early what? I think we launched it last year in Chicago. Yep, it's a photogrammetry system that you scan with an iPhone and iPad.
Interesting. Yep, so just like photogrammetry, you got those markers, they have the geometric shapes. Put them in there and literally, what do you need? Obviously, you need an app. You're not just using a camera, right? I mean.
Right, so you do need an app. It's an app on the App Store and you can download that app. There is a subscription fee, but it's an unlimited use subscription fee. We're not going to charge nickel and dime you on per case. So you capture your intro or, you know, your data of the mouth with the intro or scanner and then for your implant positioning data, You'll put the T markers in, and then you'll just use your iPad or an iPhone to capture the implant positioning data. And we're currently seeing an average capture time of, I believe it was under a minute. Nice. Yeah.
Can I use my iPhone that is 20 years old? Is iPhone even 20 years old? I don't even know.
I think we're getting, we might be getting there pretty soon. No, you will need your, it's either 15 Pro and later versions or it's an iPad Pro M4, so 2024 model and later versions for the iPad Pro.
Someone, I think I heard it has to be one that has three cameras on it.
So it only uses, technically speaking, it only, I believe it only uses one camera.
But the versions are the ones.
Right. The pro models do have three cameras.
Okay. But you only use one though.
Only use one. Yep.
Interesting.
And I know everyone goes, yeah, that's not real photogrammetry because it uses one camera, but it still works. It's just a different, different aspect of a photogrammetry.
All right. So here it is. T marker or IO Connect, is that what it's called? Which one's better? Which one's more accurate? Which one are you? Obviously the IO Connect, you probably have more data to justify it, but I mean, are you saying it's like on par one or the other or is one a little better?
So I would say it depends on what the doctor needs or what the lab is wanting. you have these doctors who are diehard photogrammetry fans. They go, well, we know photogrammetry is the most accurate, you know, accurate system to work with. So we just want photogrammetry and we don't want to look at anything else. So we have doctors that or other clients who are wanting, you know, we go, we don't need another scanner. You know, we don't need another device in the office. And we just want to use what we have. And those will be the IO Connect users. So I don't really know if I can choose one for that matter, because it would be case by case.
That's actually a great answer.
Yeah. Because it's case by case.
Yeah.
I mean, some doctors are going to want IO connect, some doctors are going to want T marker. So that's what the lab would use. Whatever that the doctor is requiring for the most part.
I mean, even myself, we went from another Grammetry set to photogrammetry. Now we're better with photogrammetry, but we still have misses. You know what I mean? So it's not a perfect solution. I just think it's slightly better than grammetry.
Yeah, I don't know what you mean. What do you mean by misses?
Well, things that don't seat, you know, when you finally fabricate it. it's off a little bit or whatever. I mean, can you say it's a system or was it scan body not seated? Was there warpage in the fabrication? I mean, you could you go nuts trying to figure out exactly what happened other than just let's.
Just get new records and let's just do it again. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, with T Marker, I would say since there is a bit of so we're developing a separate software called T-Snap. I like that.
T-Snap. Like beyoncé?
It compliments the T marker. And I'm not sure if I can say too much about T-Snap, but.
Now you have to.
I'll say it, and if it needs to come out, I'm going to apologize for all this.
It'll be one long.
But so T-Snap is a separate app that we're developing for, specifically for full arches where the doctor can use the phone that they've just scanned the T marker with to scan the mouth and do a facial scan as well.
What? So you're getting soft tissue and face all from the phone?
Yes. And you can upload the CBCT data and align the face and your scans so that you can actually develop a entire set of data where you can add different teeth designs or wax ups, what have you. And the patient will be able to see their face in real time in terms of how their face is going to look like afterwards.
That's insane. All on the phone.
All on the phone.
Wow. all you need is a design software that fits on my phone. And I mean, I can open up a lab in my pocket.
Well, we do have a design software on the desktop, but not on the...
Yeah, I got to get it on my phone, man. Yeah, exactly.
That's an idea. We'll credit you on that, Elvis, if we do.
Oh yeah, please do.
Yeah. So T Marker is a bit more exciting in that sense.
Yeah. I mean, that's quite a solution for, I mean, I walk into an office to do a thing. I got two big cases, a backpack with a laptop. That's just to get records.
Yeah, exactly. And then, when a patient accepts a case, that also means work for the lab as well. So we wanted to kind of give more tools to the lab where they can, allow for a better acceptance. And doctors, I mean, who wouldn't like that? If you have a doctor that says, oh, my lab can help accept, you know, getting my patient to accept cases, then.
Oh, 100%.
Yeah, exactly.
With all this technology, we should be using it for everything.
Yeah.
For sure.
So we're excited. A lot of new things are coming. And Chicago is going to be also quite fun. I was going to say.
What's happening in Chicago? Well, just give us a brief glimpse.
Chicago, I believe we're going to be kind of launching the next phase of T-Snap at Chicago. And then I'm not quite sure what the actual details are. That's exciting. And we're also going, we've recently We've partnered with Nobel. So that was a big announcement that happened last week, actually, at EAO in Portugal. Nobel is going to-?
An OEM implant company is partnering with a non-OEM part maker.
Yep.
The lines have finally blurred.
Yeah, love it.
I don't know if you've heard, but Nobel, their Procera department has partnered with us to distribute T markers.
Oh, so Nobel's doing T marker as a solution.
Yes.
Smart.
So they're gonna be, so they'll have their own kit. They'll have their own kit.
Good for you all though. I mean, they're the ones that started this whole full arch. I was going to say mess, but let's not say mess. They started this whole thing all on four. That's fascinating that they're now going out to you. I mean, that's brilliant. Yeah.
So we're grateful to our team. I mean, our R&D team, John, who came up with the idea, who spearheaded everything. And then our marketing team did quite well with making sure the word's getting out. So, John.
That's cool.
We're excited.
Keeping on the full arch. I mean, a lot of the ones we do, we use the true abutment prosthetic screw, right? But, and it's a flat head.
Yes.
And everyone's got angled now and now you got the angled drivers and all this stuff with all these other screws. Will you be updating the true abutment screw anytime soon or have you already done it? I just don't know about it.
No, I think we're gonna keep our screws the way they are for now.
Yeah, they work.
I mean, we definitely have both sides of the aisle where, you know, the flat screw or the little tapered screw. Sure. And I don't think they'll ever go away. Yeah. So we're always gonna have people from both sides. I don't know if we're gonna be developing a separate taper screw, but our R&D department from our testing, they've said that the flat screw was had a better result so yeah yeah I mean that's.
That's our go-to screw unless someone has anything different that's what we do at Derby yeah and they're glad.
To hear it yeah yeah they're great screws.
When did true abutment start making implants what is it called urus yes the urus how did that happen?
I believe it was launched in 2018 it's been a while yes it has been And now it's taking off a little bit. I mean, it's definitely gaining traction.
It's a hard market to be in.
It is a very hard market. I mean, the big boys have a lockdown quite tight. So it is a hard market. But yours has been around, yeah, eight years now almost.
So did you develop the whole implant or is it one of these famous you guys got one out of some like Brazil, like you see all these implants coming from?
I have not developed. So true. For a moment, it was an in-house development of your, if that's what you're talking about. Yes, it is. We didn't require anyone to coordinate. So we've developed it from the ground up for our implant.
What's the connection?
Not me. Definitely not me. I haven't developed anything.
What's the connection on Urus?
It's your hexagon, like a Morse taper, kind of a conical shape.
Perfect.
Very similar to, I would say, like a Hyosen Nobel.
Okay, so perfect. Yeah, because I don't think I've ever, I've seen one or restored one here at the lab. I could have and didn't know it, but I don't think I've seen them in the area. But like I said, it's a hard market.
It is a hard market.
It's hard to penetrate in there and get them in there. And I know True Abutment's really big on education. You have like an academy.
We're definitely trying to push more on the education side because we do have a lot of systems in place and we're definitely trying to work more towards that. We're trying to develop more education programs, more hands-on courses. And we're also with the labs, also we're trying to support more of their education side as well. Not just our own, but to support the labs to have more study clubs or small seminars with their doctors so that they can get the word out there of what they're using. and how it works, and so that the doctors are, so they actually ask for a certain product. So that's what they educate them.
So if a lab wants to educate their clients, you'll partner with that lab to kind of help put on a presentation and a program. We can do that.
Yeah, we can definitely, so I'm pushing for that quite hard.
Yeah, what usually do labs want to educate their doctors with? I mean...
For the most part, it's actually a full art. And especially IO Connect and TMarkers have been two of the biggest products that a lot of the labs are wanting to kind of educate their doctors more on, because the ROI is definitely there with full arches. If you do it well and if you have an accurate system where you'll be able to get the cases done in one go, then I mean... ROI is amazing. So a lot of the labs are very, very excited and they're very interested in doing large courses.
Yeah. And especially being able to show your clients how easy it is with your phone. I mean, yeah, find that so cool. I want to play with it. I want to check it out.
Yeah. Yeah. I can definitely connect you with your rep if you want.
Are there reps locally in the out and about or not?
You're in Minnesota.
Indiana, same as France though, in Illinois.
OK, we don't have anyone out there, but yeah, I mean, I'll.
See y'all in Chicago, I'll play with you in Chicago.
And I'm gonna be at NOLA as well, so.
How are you? Oh, good. We'll see you there.
Yeah, I'll be there.
Nice.
Sean has very graciously invited us to come.
Sean's amazing. NOLA's amazing. You guys are amazing. Can't wait. That's awesome.
Yeah, I'm excited for NOLA.
Yeah.
There you go. Yeah. I do want to play around with it. I want to check it out and I want to see it in action.
Okay. Sounds good.
Well, Jay, thank you so much, man. We appreciate you coming on, giving us the history of True Abutment.
It's about time. Just saying.
It really is. I don't know how I've done, but.
No, it was great. We got the history of everything yourself. And then what's next? I mean, hopefully we can leave some of this in there with the T-Snap, I think it's called.
Yeah, So that's what's next. So a lot of the software developments are happening with design softwares on our TruSuite software. And a lot of resins are coming out. True Flexible being one that's coming out very soon. And then I believe Crown and Bridge resin is going to be coming out. Yeah. And then there's one more that's coming out that I'm not supposed to say. I know that for a fact.
Oh, what else is there? Crown and bridge, flexible. What else is there?
Yeah, there's, it's something clear, but yeah.
What about, this is my last question because we got to wrap up, but what about printing an implant model and the analog is part of the model?
Interesting.
I don't know if it could work because it's still, the material and it's not really, metal and all that. But wouldn't that be fascinating to do?
That would be fascinating. But I mean, you, as you know, from working at the lab that a lot of our technicians love to just kind of torque that thing down and. I know. Yeah, that's why I'm saying it.
I don't know.
The resin is going to have to work pretty hard.
Take it right here from the podcast.
As you stated, you know some smart people, so get on that.
Okay, maybe we'll see. I mean, that would be amazing. I mean, that would go with, that would get rid of all the discrepancy on, you know, putting the.
Analog in the model. Yeah. All you got to do is call it the Elvis model and you can have it.
There you go. Perfect. We'll call it the Elvis. We'll drop the model. I love it.
Love it. Well, Jay, thank you so much. I guess we're going to see you, what, in like 2 weeks? Couple weeks. Two weeks. Yeah, this is so cool. So yeah, make sure you stop by and.
We'll do. We'll definitely do. Yeah.
Cannot wait to meet you personally.
We appreciate you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me on.
Yeah, absolutely. Have a good one.
Thank you.
Too. Bye bye.
A huge thanks to Jay for coming on the podcast and finally telling us all about True Abutment. It's super amazing how True Abutment has grown from custom abutments and implant components into a much bigger player in digital dentistry. From the simplicity of split file workflows to IO Connect and the TMarker photogrammetry system, it's clear that the goal is to make full arch cases easier, more predictable, and more accessible for dental labs and their doctor partners. And also, it sounds like True Abutments is just getting started, you guys. It's kind of amazing to think of the possibilities that True Abutment will bring us next. Check them out at trueabutment.com.
Yeah, thanks, Jay. What a great story. Well, I'm hoping to get home sometime today. I know. It's a little scary out there in the airports, but I agree.
And you're going late, so you're going to be delayed, that's for sure.
And even if I don't make it home, we'll talk to you next week.
Yes, sir. Have a good one. Have a great one. Bye. Bye.
The views and opinions expressed on the Voices from the Bench podcast are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the host or Voices from the Bench LLC.